This happens on a more or less regular basis:
I applied to a job posted on various different translator sites. Partial job description:
"We’re now looking for Japanese to English translators to work in a project about factory automation. The volume is about 250K chars. .. To know more about the subject, please refer to the sample text below."
Requirements from the poster included to work ONLY during the daytime, approximately 6 hours. I wrote, I can do that and gave them my usual rate.
Two days later, I get the following message (partial):
"This project contains 3 parts—Factory Automation, Factory Supplies and Electronics—and has 3,000,000 chars. The first part, Factory Automation, has technical terms stored in TM. You can also refer to the English websites we provide. So it should be quite simple to translate this part. For Factory Supplies and Electronics, there are Japanese websites for you to check the context. We need to deliver 60K chars to our client everyday. Therefore, you’re free to take as many chars as you like (max. 60K) daily.
In view of this, could you possibly lower your rate to at least USD$ 0.04 per Japanese char? The other candidates have a more competitive rate as USD$0.03 per char."
Well, just for the fun of it, I replied as follows:
Good evening from Japan
And thank you for your message, but I was already wondering when this would happen.
This = "lower your rate".
On 2/24 you wrote in your mail: "However, we will pay you according to your rate, if the translation is approved." (HAS it been "approved"?)
which came as a pleasant surprise to me. Now, things turn out the "usual" way.
Believe me, I have seen / experienced this kind of work before and therefore speak from (30 years of) experience!
Usual = unreasonable requests for unreasonably low rates.
I take the liberty of assuming, that this is what the (Japanese?) client requires, so that you are not guilty of anything.
Maybe people can survive in China or Taiwan working for 0.03 USD/char., but that is NOT realistic here in Japan.
"So it should be quite simple to translate this part. ... there are Japanese websites for you to check the context."
THAT is precisely what makes this work VERY labor intensive.
* no context to refer to
* highly technical terms (I VERY much doubt that terms like "高周波焼入れ / 浸炭焼き" are FA related!) that needs to be checked
* "websites to check ..." means, you have to search through many pages of online material = requires time! (unless they have well organized glossaries -> unlikely)
Let's take for example "高周波焼入" -> if you KNOW the translation already -> just the time for entering it into the software;
if you need to look up something / everything or even check "reference" material -> let's assume quick, smooth work to do all that in TWO minutes.
Then it would take 24 seconds per character (this number may of course vary widely).
Then: 24 x 60,000=1,440,000 seconds= 400 hours of work daily.
no eating, sleeping, telephone calls, toilet breaks ... nothing.
Since you require translators who work ONLY during the daytime, let's say 8 hours without once removing their fingers from the keyboard = 50 translators.
(the sample you gave me as a trial contained practically 0 repetitions -> the use of CAT tools is unlikely to help!)
To make it happen in reality, you would need more.
Getting THAT many translators, who all work for peanuts can happen only in China or India.
Naturally, the quality (for reasons I outlined before) cannot be quaranteed or even maintained among that many translators.
The client could put the whole thing through Google translate and get the same result: incomprehensible mumble jumble.
So, if the client INSISTS on a cheap product, cheap Chinese quality is what it will get.
I may not be the best in the field, BUT as a professional translator I prefer to TAKE PRIDE in my work.
As such, I can not live with the idea that it is completely irrelevant, whether my translation is correct or not,
as long as I put ANYTHING into the empty cells of the Excel sheet.
If your "other candidates" have no problem with working for 0.03 USD and no doubts about the nature of this work ... fine.
Please rely on those gentlepersons.
Under the given conditions I prefer not volunteer for more material than I could do comfortably during an afteroon tea break.
Thank you.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The chief virtue that language can have is clearness,
and nothing detracts from it so much as the use of unfamiliar words.
Hippocrates
Showing posts with label unreasonable. Show all posts
Showing posts with label unreasonable. Show all posts
2/27/2014
Unreasonable
Labels:
CAT tools,
incomprehensible,
labor intensive,
mumble jumble,
peanuts,
PRIDE,
rate,
simple,
unreasonable
11/12/2012
Me and you - thats different.
Today a "job offer" was posted on multiple sites:
"This is the first project on a long list of documents to be translated.
It has two parts, 18,000 words in each.
We will accept a flat rate of no more than 400 USD for each part, no more than 800 USD for the entire project.
(-> 400 / 18000 = 0.022 USD/word ; this is my calculation)
Requirements:
1. Must be a native German speaker with excellent writing skills
2. Must be near-native fluent in English and have experience translating philosophical, spiritual, and religious documents.
Please contact me only if you're serious about the job ... Payment will be made through paypal immediately upon delivery.
(From the poster's (Qiangwei Wang) profile:)
Preferred currency: USD
Min. rate per word per hour
Chinese > English 0.12 USD 45.00 USD
English > Chinese 0.10 USD 40.00 USD
German > Chinese 0.15 USD 50.00 USD
German > English 0.15 USD 50.00 USD"
So this person works for 0.12-0.15 USD/word. Understandable.
How come everybody else has to work for 18.5%-14.6% of the payment this person considers appropriate for himself?
Apparently the poster assumes, that other translators work purely for fun (translation of philosophical material is definitely not easy) and don't have to pay the rent or buy food.
This is not "An American in Paris" but rather
"A Chinese in America".
"This is the first project on a long list of documents to be translated.
It has two parts, 18,000 words in each.
We will accept a flat rate of no more than 400 USD for each part, no more than 800 USD for the entire project.
(-> 400 / 18000 = 0.022 USD/word ; this is my calculation)
Requirements:
1. Must be a native German speaker with excellent writing skills
2. Must be near-native fluent in English and have experience translating philosophical, spiritual, and religious documents.
Please contact me only if you're serious about the job ... Payment will be made through paypal immediately upon delivery.
(From the poster's (Qiangwei Wang) profile:)
Preferred currency: USD
Min. rate per word per hour
Chinese > English 0.12 USD 45.00 USD
English > Chinese 0.10 USD 40.00 USD
German > Chinese 0.15 USD 50.00 USD
German > English 0.15 USD 50.00 USD"
So this person works for 0.12-0.15 USD/word. Understandable.
How come everybody else has to work for 18.5%-14.6% of the payment this person considers appropriate for himself?
Apparently the poster assumes, that other translators work purely for fun (translation of philosophical material is definitely not easy) and don't have to pay the rent or buy food.
This is not "An American in Paris" but rather
"A Chinese in America".
Related articles
Labels:
America,
Business,
China,
flate rate,
rate,
translation,
unreasonable
9/15/2012
"Speed translation"
This came in the other day on 23:30 Japan time. The company is located in New York and I would have to check the time difference:
"I have a potentially crazy question to ask you...would you be able to turn around 2 Japanese patent applications, one of 4597 words and the other of 2255 words, by 7:45AM tomorrow? More feasibly, would you be able to turn around at least the larger patent application by 7:45AM tomorrow?"
My first response:
Good morning (3 am!) from Japan
Thank you for your job offer, but ...
with all due respect - the requested due date is very unrealistic!
Having a short look showed approximately 23 + 12 pages of translation.
Together that would be 35 pages of PATENT SPECIFICATION, which is a lot more difficult than ordinary text.
In a few hours???
Maybe even asking for a discount rate?
I am not capable of working that fast (being busy with other work anyway).
I would like to meet the person who actually CAN do that.
Even if somebody says s/he CAN produce that much patent translation in such a short time ... I would not trust that person/translation.
Please ask ANYBODY working in ANY patent office about the feasibility, and more importantly the trustworthiness of the produced translation.
Sorry, but I cannot help you, even if I wanted to.
And my professional pride demands that I DO NOT accept work, when I cannot take responsibility for the results.
When the other party agreed, I added a little metaphor:
No problem and no harm done.
It is simply amazing how little the people who are asking for this kind of work actually KNOW about what is involved in translation -- or else CARE about it.
To put it in a little (distorted, sorry) perspective:
Let's say someone asks a construction firm to something like the Empire State Building - in two weeks with a budget of 8.75 USD.
I can see the exhilarated president of the construction company ...
And naturally everybody would agree that this absolutely normal ....
*************************
One of my grandfather's favorite sayings was“Use the right tool for the job”
―common-sense advice that applies to a wide range of situations.
Unfortunately, as Mark Twain observed, common sense isn't very common!
"I have a potentially crazy question to ask you...would you be able to turn around 2 Japanese patent applications, one of 4597 words and the other of 2255 words, by 7:45AM tomorrow? More feasibly, would you be able to turn around at least the larger patent application by 7:45AM tomorrow?"
My first response:
Good morning (3 am!) from Japan
Thank you for your job offer, but ...
with all due respect - the requested due date is very unrealistic!
Having a short look showed approximately 23 + 12 pages of translation.
Together that would be 35 pages of PATENT SPECIFICATION, which is a lot more difficult than ordinary text.
In a few hours???
Maybe even asking for a discount rate?
I am not capable of working that fast (being busy with other work anyway).
I would like to meet the person who actually CAN do that.
Even if somebody says s/he CAN produce that much patent translation in such a short time ... I would not trust that person/translation.
Please ask ANYBODY working in ANY patent office about the feasibility, and more importantly the trustworthiness of the produced translation.
Sorry, but I cannot help you, even if I wanted to.
And my professional pride demands that I DO NOT accept work, when I cannot take responsibility for the results.
When the other party agreed, I added a little metaphor:
No problem and no harm done.
It is simply amazing how little the people who are asking for this kind of work actually KNOW about what is involved in translation -- or else CARE about it.
To put it in a little (distorted, sorry) perspective:
Let's say someone asks a construction firm to something like the Empire State Building - in two weeks with a budget of 8.75 USD.
I can see the exhilarated president of the construction company ...
And naturally everybody would agree that this absolutely normal ....
*************************
One of my grandfather's favorite sayings was“Use the right tool for the job”
―common-sense advice that applies to a wide range of situations.
Unfortunately, as Mark Twain observed, common sense isn't very common!
Labels:
care,
English language,
German language,
Patent,
speed,
translation,
unreasonable,
作業、内容、適性
5/05/2012
Cheap bus tour results in an accident killing 7 people
The other day an accident occurred on a Japanese highway, killing 7 people. The driver of a bus - a driver hired by the day - fell asleep. Apparently, there was no co-driver on the bus, and the entire tour designed to be "first of all cheap", specifically targeting Chinese customers.
The accident is one thing, but what struck me this morning was a TV show where one of the commentators said:
"It is this fierce competitions nowadays for providing cheaper and cheaper services/product, REQUIRING to cut costs where ever possible, to has finally led to poor safety measures, the use of insufficiently qualified personnel etc. that led to the tragedy"
THIS sounds like something that could be applied IDENTICALLY to the translation business:
"lower your rates", "cut costs", "do NOT charge extra for rush jobs etc.", "no special expertise needed (= everybody can do it = makes prices cheap)".
Well, I tried to point this out many times already. Cutting costs to the bone, forcing "real" translators into starvation etc, WILL in the end lead to the use/employment of untrained, unskilled personnel with "no special expertise", whose inadequate translation make even lead to the death of people. Who knows??
Is THAT what clients want? It will certainly give them a few headlines.
Starving the real people in the end will force them to "recruit the crew for a space shuttle from a pool of cheap physical laborers with no special expertise". It will definitely cut costs, but will it benefit the space program?
The accident is one thing, but what struck me this morning was a TV show where one of the commentators said:
"It is this fierce competitions nowadays for providing cheaper and cheaper services/product, REQUIRING to cut costs where ever possible, to has finally led to poor safety measures, the use of insufficiently qualified personnel etc. that led to the tragedy"
THIS sounds like something that could be applied IDENTICALLY to the translation business:
"lower your rates", "cut costs", "do NOT charge extra for rush jobs etc.", "no special expertise needed (= everybody can do it = makes prices cheap)".
Well, I tried to point this out many times already. Cutting costs to the bone, forcing "real" translators into starvation etc, WILL in the end lead to the use/employment of untrained, unskilled personnel with "no special expertise", whose inadequate translation make even lead to the death of people. Who knows??
Is THAT what clients want? It will certainly give them a few headlines.
Starving the real people in the end will force them to "recruit the crew for a space shuttle from a pool of cheap physical laborers with no special expertise". It will definitely cut costs, but will it benefit the space program?
Labels:
cheap,
Expert,
Flat rate,
Japan,
Japanese,
rate,
translation,
unreasonable
4/24/2012
Common sense not applicable to translators
Yesterday I got a mail from a coordinator I have not heard from before from a translation company for which I work more than 20 years ->
****************************************************************************
<<URGENT>> Request for translation work on U-STAR project
The localization project is a request from NICT, an Independent Administrative Institution in Japan. We ask you to translate common text which applies to speech translation system (U-STAR).
The target text is general, not specific, meanwhile the translations should be precise and easy-to-understand for anyone.
Wordcount: 477
Target document: Word file (doc)
Due to the budget from the clinet, we desire to define unit price for the operations below: Translation - 10 yen/w
Could you give me feedback ASAP?
****************************************************************************
It starts out with <<URGENT>> and closes with ASAP.
Yet, there is (naturally?) no mentioning of surplus fees for rush jobs.
Instead that person asks me to work for a rate which is LESS THAN HALF of the "usual rate" that very company has been paying me for over 20 years!
If I were to accept this job for this rate, it would be very hard to justify my "usual" rate for any future jobs ...
And ... this is something that keeps me always wondering ... if you go to a post office to mail a letter, that incurs a certain fee. If you ask for express delivery, that will AS A MATTER OF COURSE cost more.
If you call for a taxi in the middle of the night it will be more expensive than during the day.
If you order (a) certain product(s) AND ask for a gift wrapping or anything else "special", it goes without saying, that those extras will be billed IN ADDITION to the product price.
This is called "common sense"
How come then, that asking translators for "special delivery", "express delivery", "DTP finishing", "editing of the text" etc. IN ADDITION to the translation, seems always to be considered a "free service"???
I think, this would never happen in any other sort of business.
Apparently common sense is not applied to the work of translators ...
Offering "starvation wages (rates)" will NATURALLY put be out of business due to death by starvation. Then the company will have maybe lost an important service provider, who can give them services/products elsewhere maybe not so readily available .....
****************************************************************************
<<URGENT>> Request for translation work on U-STAR project
The localization project is a request from NICT, an Independent Administrative Institution in Japan. We ask you to translate common text which applies to speech translation system (U-STAR).
The target text is general, not specific, meanwhile the translations should be precise and easy-to-understand for anyone.
Wordcount: 477
Target document: Word file (doc)
Due to the budget from the clinet, we desire to define unit price for the operations below: Translation - 10 yen/w
Could you give me feedback ASAP?
****************************************************************************
It starts out with <<URGENT>> and closes with ASAP.
Yet, there is (naturally?) no mentioning of surplus fees for rush jobs.
Instead that person asks me to work for a rate which is LESS THAN HALF of the "usual rate" that very company has been paying me for over 20 years!
If I were to accept this job for this rate, it would be very hard to justify my "usual" rate for any future jobs ...
And ... this is something that keeps me always wondering ... if you go to a post office to mail a letter, that incurs a certain fee. If you ask for express delivery, that will AS A MATTER OF COURSE cost more.
If you call for a taxi in the middle of the night it will be more expensive than during the day.
If you order (a) certain product(s) AND ask for a gift wrapping or anything else "special", it goes without saying, that those extras will be billed IN ADDITION to the product price.
This is called "common sense"
How come then, that asking translators for "special delivery", "express delivery", "DTP finishing", "editing of the text" etc. IN ADDITION to the translation, seems always to be considered a "free service"???
I think, this would never happen in any other sort of business.
Apparently common sense is not applied to the work of translators ...
Offering "starvation wages (rates)" will NATURALLY put be out of business due to death by starvation. Then the company will have maybe lost an important service provider, who can give them services/products elsewhere maybe not so readily available .....
Related articles
- Degrading translators (nyuwa.wordpress.com)
Labels:
Asia,
Business,
Business Services,
cheap,
exploitation,
Japan,
translation,
unreasonable
6/27/2010
Transperfect - one of the nonsense giants!
Transperfect - I do not trust them any more ...
(a few pieces from their website ? and my comments)
Well … if that is so, how come I continuously get mails like:
→ If quality is of such importance, why then split a 20+ job among several translators. This will by necessity and assuredly result in a mixture of styles and probably also a "quality cocktail".
→ As far as I know, they insist on using an outdated, not very reliable software that many translators DO NOT like. And the require translators to use this tool, which forces the translator to work with equipment s/he may not be familiar/efficient with. How can this then help to produce better results???
A short while later:
In that case I would suggest, that they offer the translator a decent pay up front for work to be completed in reasonable time. THAT would help!
Or,
And the other day:
Stupid as I am, I DID answer.
My response (partially):
The choice depends on the clients expectations / preferences
**UNLESS** you leave all the decisions to the translator. But in that case you/the client should not afterwards come and complain about a million
unimportant and annoying details? .....
AND ask people basically NOT involved = me, to provide you with free services.
I would prefer, if you do not bother me with this any further.
=> which the manager did not. Neither did he ever offer **ANY** kind of favor in return for this favor/service he got through me.
A symbolic representation of the exploitation of translators by Transperfect.
My advice to translators: unless you can really good offer from Transperfect (unlikely!) - preferrably in writing! - you should for your own good think twice before working for that company.
(a few pieces from their website ? and my comments)
"TransPerfect is headquartered in New York, with offices in over 50 cities on 4 continents."
"Commitment to Quality
"We have demonstrated our commitment to providing the highest quality language solutions, to achieving client satisfaction, and most important, to working to continually improve our processes and operations to exceed our clients' expectations," Well … if that is so, how come I continuously get mails like:
"SUPER URGENT JOB
Please excuse this blast email but this project requires some urgency. I have contacted many of you about this job already but we still have about 4700 words left to place. I am in desperate need of help for this one and I would really appreciate any help at all. Even if you could take a page or two that would be extremely helpful. … Quality is of utmost importance for this project as well as the client has already complained about the quality of previous translations."
→ If quality is of such importance, why then split a 20+ job among several translators. This will by necessity and assuredly result in a mixture of styles and probably also a "quality cocktail".
"For TransPerfect, achieving ISO 9001 certification is an honor: but it is simply not enough. We continue to innovate, to strive for excellence, evolving every day to take advantage of all that the emerging technologies have to offer, streamlining our processes, and meeting our clients' needs in the most effective manner possible."
→ As far as I know, they insist on using an outdated, not very reliable software that many translators DO NOT like. And the require translators to use this tool, which forces the translator to work with equipment s/he may not be familiar/efficient with. How can this then help to produce better results???
While Transperfect ALWAYS tries to cheat the translators and offers a pay that is significantly substandard, there are sometimes desparate situations:
"This job is still available and we need your help!!!?
Please let me know if you can take proofreading or translation and when is the soonest you can deliver the files."
"Hello again,
I can pay whatever is necessary to get this job completed for the deadlines below. Please let me know if you cn help.?THANK YOU!!!"
In that case I would suggest, that they offer the translator a decent pay up front for work to be completed in reasonable time. THAT would help!
Or,
"I have 560 words of an urgent press release due in 3 hours. A great way to make some extra money for the weekend."
Since Transperfect offers mostly something between 0.04 ? 0.08 USD, assume they will pay 0.07 USD = 40 USD. Fine, but I would have to pay 30-40 USD in bank fees to get that money" = a "great way to make some extra money".And the other day:
"Hi Thomas, you came highly recommended by my colleagues (==> that is something I doubt VERY much) and I was wondering if you could help me out with a small favor. I have a EN>DE translation that was done, the linguist is now offline but I just wanted to check that the translation of this one word is correct."
Stupid as I am, I DID answer.
"Hi Thomas! Thank you for that! I was actually wondering why the "of" is not translated. Should it be …."
My response (partially):
The choice depends on the clients expectations / preferences
**UNLESS** you leave all the decisions to the translator. But in that case you/the client should not afterwards come and complain about a million
unimportant and annoying details? .....
AND ask people basically NOT involved = me, to provide you with free services.
I would prefer, if you do not bother me with this any further.
=> which the manager did not. Neither did he ever offer **ANY** kind of favor in return for this favor/service he got through me.
A symbolic representation of the exploitation of translators by Transperfect.
My advice to translators: unless you can really good offer from Transperfect (unlikely!) - preferrably in writing! - you should for your own good think twice before working for that company.
Labels:
cheating,
exploitation,
translation,
transperfect,
unreasonable
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